MF+Dots is pretty much all our stuff. We almost never cast sw:death already and at 50%+ haste I'm pretty sure mind flay becomes better dps than mind blast anyways so you just won't cast it at all unless you're refreshing replenishment.

I wouldn't underestimate how much extra dmg fast sw:pain ticks accumulate over say a 5 minute fight. Imagine being able to cut the tick time down by an additional second by combining all your cooldowns at the beginning of a fight. Instead sw:pain ticking every 2.5 seconds, it ticks every 1.5 seconds. An avg of say 2100 dmg per tick. That is 200 ticks instead of 120. 80x2100dmg or an additional 560 dps over 5 minutes.

Admittedly that is all napkin math and doesn't factor out the gains from using those cooldowns normally but it seems more than trivial.

Think about what you wrote there... ok. Now... do you think people are advocating changing the troll racial or changing the way any haste buff can be stacked onto sw:pain and maintain that speed for the rest of the fight? The problem isn't the racial. It's the design of the way sw:pain reapplies itself.

we really should stop trying to calculate optimal dps conditions with this haste rolling bug.

blizz is going to fix it, as it is quite obviously not intended. The real question is will actually get to see it live for a while, or will it get fixed before 3.3 is released...

personally, I don't see blizzard releasing 3.3 with the current haste rolling bug. it's just too OP to ignore. plus, it makes it almost a must-have to race-change to troll for PvE shadowpriests. And blizz is not going to let anything that practically forces us to race-change go live...


also, even if they fix the haste rolling bug, zerking is still enough of a buff (46 pseudopower or so) that most PvE spriests will race-change to troll. I have a feeling blizz will probably either nerf zerking, or they will buff other racials to bring them in line with zerking...

either way, I have a feeling lots of people (probably myself included ) will end up race-changing to troll for at least most of ICC (or at least until racials are redone). /sigh...

At that (50%) point haste becomes equal to crit - which is "quite as useful"

I know the problem isn´t the racial but the mechanics of SW:P. I was answering to a previous post that was suggesting that maybe Blizzard should have to nerf the racial to "bring them all in line"

Well you have demonstrated that 100% hasted SWP does considerably more dps than a 20% hasted SWP. But beyond that you appear to have missed the point.

Putting together 100% haste (for say 10-15s) doesn't come without disadvantages. With that much haste you will lose 0.25s of casting time on every cast of MB, VT or DP. And with that much haste VT will only last 7.5s and DP 12s so you will be recasting those spells a lot more than you currently do on live.

The alternative approach would be to only build up 50% haste but you would now be able to stagger your cooldowns and make it last much longer (say 20-30s). By doing this you would eliminate the lost casting time but SWP would be doing less dps.

For a very short fight (say 30s), SWP won't have time to tick much so I very much doubt that the 100% hasted SWP gains would outweigh the lost casting time. Of course for an infinite lenght fight the 100% hasted SWP gains will clearly outweigh the lost casting time.

Therefore there must be some length of fight in between where the dps gain from a 100% hasted SWP outweighs the lost casting time. The question is therefore, how long must the fight last in order for it to be worthwhile to stack all your haste cooldowns together at the start of the fight?

No. In theory 1% haste should increase your dps by 1% because it allows you to do exactly the same thing but in less time. In order for this to work properly, haste needs to both increase the your casting speed and reduce the duration of your dot.

If 1% haste ceases to affect both the casting speed and dot duration at any point then you will no longer get a 1% dps increase.

1% crit on the other hand always increases damage by an average of 1%. And that's true right up to 100% haste (although actually I think crit may be capped at something like 75% anyway?)

I did not "miss the point". I clearly said that I did not count what kind gains you would get by using your cooldowns in a more normal fashion. I was only trying to demonstrate that while sw:pain is not a massive part of our overall damage, stacking cooldowns at the beginning of a fight can lead to some nontrivial dps gains over a 5 minute fight. (assuming it is not fixed but hey, it's fun to speculate regardless)



Even if every spell cast during those 10-15s hit the gcd cap and they won't since you should have several mind flays in there then you will have 10-15 increments of .25s lost time. Add 'em all up and you get 2.5-3.75 lost seconds. Even at 10k dps that will be made up in 45-65 seconds.

Tooltip of SForm got changed to:
and grants Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch the ability to benefit from haste...

So they weren't able to fix the bug, and the easiest fix for that is just don't let SW:P benefit from haste.

mmo-champ reporting a change in the shadowform tooltip that omits any reference to haste affecting SW:P. No change to the official PTR notes but this could be a sign that they're planning to drop SW:P haste scaling. I wonder if it's due to the P&S bug.



Edit: too slow =(

Yeah I just went on PTR and can confirm SW:P no longer benefits from haste.

Interesting, I didn't see that one coming.Too bad Blizzard has lazy / incompetent programmers.
Reminds me January this year when for 24 hours, we had Misery bug and MF / MB was hitting like a truck.Hot fixed with eye blink.But when it comes to bug that hurts our dps, it walks with us for a year.
I wonder if they are going to bother with 3-5% dps loss (not mentioning it hurts our scaling) this chance means.I guess not.Maybe MB will hit harder with haste, but that's more like a dream.
It also makes SW:P glyph rather useless.

This is not a "tooltip clarification"! it is a straight out retarded nerf to the class in most need for buffs. They anounced SW: P to be the first dot to be affected by haste, then code it to work on PTR and then
... "Fixed the tooltip" ??? Yeah right!

It is 100% due to their inability to fix SW: Pain bug.
And probably they wont compensate for the nerf either

well actually what they did was very clever and is one of the few times i can say that for something they change.

Firstly they nerf shadowpriest single target dps which was excpected

Secondly they nerf shadowpriest multi target dpsing. Even on live we are pretty OP when we can roll dots on more than 1 target(Specifically VT). Haste change for vt+swp on multi targets was boosting multi dotting way too much which is now toned down but i guess very strong still.

And finally they "fixed" swp haste problem, in reality they dont have to deal with it, which probably is pretty hard if you think that the same thing happens with crit for more than 1 year but they cant fix it still. Also saved the shadowpriest community from abusing game mechanics with using hero/haste pot/trinket procs/berserking or w/e else.


What remains to see is the scaling changes from this fix so we can tweak our gear sets to the new correct direction

Nothing close to cleaving as blood DK/warrior though.

They should finally say where exactly do they want different classes/specs to be. Usually they have said they don't want to balance around aoe or "gimmick" fights where you can dps several targets but it seems that doesn't go for all classes