shadowpriest.com
http://shadowpriest.com/

Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=25829		 Page 2 of 6
Author:  Purity [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Well if it is 90s (boo!) and a 30% proc chance with three dots rolling I say a 5s window is appropriate. So 20/95 x 918 = 193 SP per second over time. Considering you get the same amount of crit rating from the heroic Spyglass, and a 200 SP constant stack, I don't see myself wasting the DKP on this thing when I know my 10 man will be farming Heroic Gunship soon. . .
Author:  Thangrol [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Using stat weights from BRGA thread:

Assuming the low bound proc rate of 5seconds and an ICD of 90sec:

Normal:
152 crit = 152 * .76 PP = 115.52 PP
proc = 918 * (20 sec uptime) / (95 sec downtime) = 193.26 PP
Total: 115.52 + 193.26 = 308.78 PP

Heroic:
172 crit = 172 * .76 PP = 130.72 PP
proc = 1032 * (20 sec uptime) / (95 sec downtime) = 217.26 PP
Total: 130.72 + 217.26 = 347.98 PP



Assuming the median proc rate of 7.5seconds and an ICD of 90sec:

Normal:
152 crit = 152 * .76 PP = 115.52 PP
proc = 918 * (20 sec uptime) / (97.5 sec downtime) = 188.31 PP
Total: 115.52 + 188.31 = 303.83 PP

Heroic:
172 crit = 172 * .76 PP = 130.72 PP
proc = 1032 * (20 sec uptime) / (97.5 sec downtime) = 211.69 PP
Total: 130.72 + 211.69 = 342.41 PP



Assuming the high bound proc rate of 10 secs and ICD of 90sec:

Normal:
152 crit = 152 * .76 PP = 115.52 PP
proc = 918 * (20 sec uptime) / (100 sec downtime) = 183.6 PP
Total: 115.52 + 183.6 = 299.12 PP

Heroic:
172 crit = 172 * .76 PP = 130.72 PP
proc = 1032 * (20 sec uptime) / (100 sec downtime) = 206.4 PP
Total: 130.72 + 206.4 = 337.12 PP



So even using the worst case proc rate of 10 seconds, the normal trinket is comparable to (H)Reign for us. Though it's not as good as DFO, this is a very good trinket for us. 264 being about equal to (H)Reign and 277 will be 2nd BiS for us (since we cant use both versions of the DFO).
Author:  PiousFlea [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Oddly, in the BRGA 3.3 thread the H-Muradin's Spyglass only get 181 SP from the stacking buff, while IotDS gets 195.6. If you fix the muradin's spyglass buff then it should be worth slightly more PP than either H-RotD or N-Phylactery.

Nonetheless, the normal Phylactery should be on-par with heroic Reign of the Dead, while the Heroic Phylactery is definitely better than H-Muradin or H-RotD. Still nowhere near as good as DFO, but I guess not every trinket can be spell power or haste. =(
Author:  Carrieann [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
It's easier to keep the IOTDS stack up than Muradin's. I think the lower value of Muradin's proc is justified.
Author:  Purity [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Carrieann wrote:
It's easier to keep the IOTDS stack up than Muradin's. I think the lower value of Muradin's proc is justified.


Not true IMO, Spyglass stacks each time you deal spell damage while IotDS is on spell cast. It takes less time to build the Spyglass, and as long as you have even 1 DoT tick in a 10s timeframe you maintain the stack. Even in an encounter mechanic like Putricide's Tear Gas your DoTs continue to refresh your stack while stunned.
Author:  Sukula [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Purity wrote:
Not true IMO, Spyglass stacks each time you deal spell damage while IotDS is on spell cast. It takes less time to build the Spyglass, and as long as you have even 1 DoT tick in a 10s timeframe you maintain the stack. Even in an encounter mechanic like Putricide's Tear Gas your DoTs continue to refresh your stack while stunned.


You can cast any spell (shield, levitate, innerfire fade, whatever) and it refreshes
You can also pre-stack IDS while you can only gain stacks of Spyglass during combat (my guess is the reason why it is higher)
You can only lose IDS stacks if you are stunned/silenced for the duration.

While, it is unrealistic that both would fall off in a fight (barring a 20sec lore stun ie illidan)
Spyglass will get back up faster in case of it falling off.
Author:  Purity [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
I don't want to derail this thread too much, so this will be the last I'll say in relation to H Spyglass vs Phylactery:

With my opening rotation, it takes almost 10s to build up 10 charges on Spyglass. If you want to use a 5 min fight to calculate PP, that works out to 197 PP via SP. Again, I can not think of a single fight/situation thusfar in ICC (have not tried Arthas yet) where Spyglass falls off. Therefore I believe Pious' query about the undervalued nature of the Spyglass trinkets in the gear thread is valid. For the heroic specifically, I would place it at 312, not the 296 listed.
Author:  Thangrol [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
The value derived from all the trinkets in the BRGA thread are done with simcraft. In reality the value of the trinkets might be slightly higher or lower depending on your current gear, but in general it's a very close approximation to what they are worth.

But I digress. Let's keep the focus on the new sexy trinket we've got waiting for us :D
Author:  Clay [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
there is no new sexy trinket waiting for us.
Sad day, discovering phylactery beeing crap and no mace or dagger from arthas...
Author:  PiousFlea [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Thangrol wrote:
The value derived from all the trinkets in the BRGA thread are done with simcraft. In reality the value of the trinkets might be slightly higher or lower depending on your current gear, but in general it's a very close approximation to what they are worth.

But I digress. Let's keep the focus on the new sexy trinket we've got waiting for us :D


SimCraft is not perfect and there could be bugs or misrepresentations in it.

For the spyglass specifically - while you can't prebuff it with levitate, it is actually significantly easier to keep fully stacked compared to IotDS. Therefore it is my belief that it should be worth at least as much as IotDS.

As far as the new trinket goes, it seems pretty conclusive that Phylactery is much weaker than DFO. This sucks but is not surprising, since it uses nearly half its itembudget on a really bad stat (Crit).
Author:  Thangrol [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Clay wrote:
there is no new sexy trinket waiting for us.
Sad day, discovering phylactery beeing crap and no mace or dagger from arthas...

That's the thing, this is NOT crap. It's easily 4th or 5th BiS, losing out only to DFO, Heroic ICC trinkets, and Heroic Reign. And the Heroic version of this will be in our BiS gearlist (seeing as we cant use both the DFOs).

Another plus on this item is I don't think many classes other than SPriest and affliction locks will be wanting this that badly and will pass on it.
Author:  Bandeide [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
The Shin guy also have the DFO, preetty good combo huh
Author:  HoHo [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Sukula wrote:
While, it is unrealistic that both would fall off in a fight (barring a 20sec lore stun ie illidan)
Spyglass will get back up faster in case of it falling off.
As long as you manage to time dot refreshes right it should be possible to keep spyglass stack up even wth 20s dps-stops. Just make sure DP and/or SWP gets refreshed right before the stop and they should tick for at least 15s leaving you 5s buffer time to hit something :)
Author:  Althor [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Hmm, I'm not sure why you believe that the Phylactery is worse than Reign or Spyglass etc?

SimulationCraft has had it at 90sec ICD since we added it (though I did originally have it at a 10% proc rate but later bumped it to 30% as per the wowhead datamined value).
In my tests with SimulationCraft it's the 2nd best trinket after DFO.

As for Spyglass, sure you can't pre-stack it but unlike Illustration which only procs from spell casts, Spyglass procs from damage.
i.e. every DoT tick, every Mind Flay tick, every Mind Sear tick.... And as someone mentioned you have the 10 seconds from the proc itself PLUS however long you have left on your DoTs (15 seconds for SW:P, more for DP unless your haste is very large). Compare this with Illustration which lasts 10 seconds from the last time you cast a spell.

It's possible there might have been some confusion with Spyglass if you used the previous release of SimulationCraft as it was being modeled incorrectly. I've fixed up a number of trinket procs for this version which will probably help.
Author:  ShadowQ [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phylactery of the Nameless Lich thread
Got it tonight - i just dpsed a dummy for 11 Minutes. I will do further tests tomorrow. Good Night.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/317982650#buffer
Page 2 of 6 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/