I've been getting tired of all of the haste related questions appearing and had been thinking of writing this guide. Then another poster suggested this would be a useful guide, so here it is.



How much haste should I get?

As much as possible.


Well then, how much damage should I get?

As much as possible.


But I have a choice between item 1 that has 50 damage, or item 2 that has 30 haste and 25 damage. Which should I pick?

A sensible question at last.

Item 2 has 25 less damage but an extra 30 haste. The question is therefore which is worth more to you, 25 damage or 30 haste. The answer to this question depends on how much damage (including buffs if you are using them) you already have.

It is generally agreed that if you currently have 1400 damage (including raid buffs), then 1 more point of damage will add the same to your DPS as 1 more point of haste. If you have more than 1400 damage then haste will be a little more valuable, and if you have less then damage will be a little more valuable.

A rough rule of thumb to use is as follows:

At 1000 damage, 1 haste = 0.6 damage.
At 1200 damage, 1 haste = 0.8 damage.
At 1400 damage, 1 haste = 1 damage.
At 1600 damage, 1 haste = 1.2 damage.
At 1800 damage, 1 haste = 1.4 damage.

Please note that this is just a rough rule of thumb. It isn’t exact and the relationship between haste and damage is rather more complicated. There are a number of threads around if you want to get into the detailed mechanics, but the above rule of thumb will be pretty reasonable.

Going back to the original example, let’s say you have 1000 damage. The question is now whether 25 damage or 30 * 0.6 = 18 damage is better. Clearly 25 > 18 so go with item 1.


Doesn’t haste make my spells less efficient?

Not exactly, haste doesn’t make your spells less efficient, however damage makes your spells more efficient.

This doesn’t mean that you throw your item calculations out of the window. It just means that if the calculation for different items is close then you should think about taking the damage item instead.

At high levels of damage and with raid buffs you will probably find that you can’t run out of mana anyway so this becomes a non issue.


Should I stack haste?

Again, not a very useful question. Pick your items based on how much overall benefit (haste and damage) they provide to you.

If the items available to you mean you have lots of damage and little haste that is fine. Or if your available items mean you have less damage and lots of haste then that is fine too.


I heard that there are sweet spots for particular amounts of haste I should get. Is this true?

No.

The longer answer is that there are some very minor sweet spots but these can safely be ignored. At very worst you will lose 0.5% of your dps by ignoring the sweet spots. If you really want to get into the detailed simulationcraft, then this isn’t the thread for you.


What is the formula to convert haste rating into a casting time reduction?

New Casting Time = Base Casting Time / (1 + (Spell Haste Rating/1570)).

Because of the way this formula works, 100% haste rating will halve the casting time of a spell and will not reduce the cast time to zero.

To get a 1.5 second spell to cast in 1 second requires 785 haste.


Yes, but all I really want to know is how much haste I should be aiming for?

Go back to question 1 and read this post again.

Keep rereading the post until you realise that this isn’t a useful question to be asking.

NO - 1 point of haste does not equal 1 point of damage - haste increases DPS
Your spells won't do more damage - and you won't regain more mana pr. spell. you DPS and MPS will increase with some factor

We're speaking in terms of equivalent increases in DPS. Please refer to the pages upon pages upon pages of theorycrafting we've already had posted before starting a useless argument here.

Haste increases dps. Damage increases dps. In that sense they are providing an equivalent type of benefit and that is the basis for the comparison.

I agree that damage also increases mana efficiency, while haste does not but this point is covered further down the post.

I will amend my post slightly to make it clearer that I am referring to DPS (although to be honest I would have thought this pretty clear already)

Yeah yeah - maybe you are right - i just still need to see the light.

I just can't make it click in my head that less damage faster really should be better than more damage slower. ....

So personally i would love to get more haste, but i won't sacrifice damage for it.

I think the link to this thread may end up in my signature.........

The bottom line is that in valuing gear in a raiding situation, we choose to look at one thing and one thing only:
How much does this item contribute to my damage per second in a straight nuke scenario? (measured in a number we call "pseudodamage", where 1 +damage = 1 pseudodamage)

There are a multitude of other factors to consider like your stamina, your mana regen, your mana pool, your controlled burst ability, the skewed value of cooldowns depending on fight length, the effect of forced dps breaks, etc etc. When making gear lists, we choose to ignore these things because they would make it impossible to make one universal gear list.

If you feel you have a strong understanding of game mechanics, feel free to use different items than the lists suggest. They are there as a general rule that will bring you pretty close to the optimum for any of a number of situations.

Nice Guide. However, I don't think the people asking these questions will be satisfied anyway - I'd point out the last sentence in the post above me

That's not really the way haste works. You are right to the extent that ultimately what matters is the amount of damage you do over the length of the fight.

But haste will help you to do more damage over the fight. It's more like would I rather do 100,000 damage every minute or 90,000 damage every minute. I'm going to take option 1 every time.

Yes, the first option does use mana a bit faster, but a shadowpriest with reasonable gear, who uses his shadowfiend sensibly and has mana potions available shouldn't need to worry overmuch about the extra mana usage. Especially with the increase to mana regen introduced with the 2.4 patch.

Any shadowpriest whose gear/play is so bad that they have really crippling mana issues really shouldn't be worrying about haste vs damage. They need to focus on the bigger issues such as why do they have int gems in their gear and why haven't they read the "Best Casual Gear" thread.

No, the answer to the question depends on how much damage AND haste you already have.

Indeed it does, and I touched briefly on this point further down the post when I said that the relationship between haste and damage is rather more complicated than I had suggested

However, it just isn't possible to get enough haste to make a practical difference to the calculations. When chosing gear it is a pretty minor point whether you value haste at 0.8/damage or even 1.2/damage.

Almost all gear choices will give the same result, and the few that change will only change by a tiny amount so it won't be a disaster if the figure used is slightly wrong.

I decided that a reasonably accurate and simple explanation was better than a complicated but entirely accurate explanation. Anyone wanting to get a really in depth understanding of haste mechanics shouldn't be reading Haste for Dummies!

possible clarification - your "rough rule of thumb" is talking about the player's fully buffed +damage, not their unbuffed damage, right? it prolly goes without saying, but this may be a warranted distinction in the "dummies" guide.

sure, but I'm just saying, i'd rather someone be completely confused by an actual thing then think they know something that isn't accurate.

I'd rather a person be confused about where babies come from then think a stork brings it and I'd rather a person be confused about the formation of the planet then think god did it in 6 days.

Whatever, I just hate talking points.

any idea what amount of haste actually gets you to the 1 second global cooldown?

im looking at working on a gear set with close to 400 haste which would be about 20% and curious as to how much would be too much

50% haste is required to get a 1 second GCD. Thats about 780 haste rating.